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From REG #'s 6, 7, & 8

REG Exclusive


Amused To Death
An Interview with Roger Waters


© Sony Music Entertainment Inc.

Transcription by Roman Guzman


The first single from Roger Waters latest album Amused To Death was "What God Wants." This single was also released as a video by Sony Music Entertainment Inc. This video (reviewed in REG issue #3) was created in three parts. The first part was "What God Wants Pt. 1", and was a mosaic of sound, images, and animation. The second part was a short compilation of excerpts from a Jim Ladd interview of Roger Waters, and the third part was "What God Wants Pt. 1" and featured video clips of Roger singing and playing the song with Jeff Beck in the studio.

The entire interview, of which only the few minutes in the "What God Wants" video has ever been shown, now has been made available exclusively to REG. Here, for the first time, for REG members only, is printed the transcription and dialog of the entire 67 minute Sony/Columbia interview video, which here-to-fore was not even known to exist, and seen or heard by only a very few in the Sony/Columbia organization itself.

REG was given access to this video for the explicit purpose of allowing our fanclub to continue to give it's membership access to exclusive information and/or scoops on late breaking stories and developments regarding Roger Waters' news and activities from the past, in the present, and in the future. The filming of this interview was done at Sony/Columbia Records in Hollywood in 1991, in a studio made up to look like an attic or basement cellar, with various pipes, electric wiring and cables, tubing, and sheet metal heating ducts and vents, and chain link fencing strewn about. The film crew work through several rolls of film with two main cameras. One camera is more or less stationary and focuses in close on Roger from different angles and close up shots. The second camera, though also focused on Roger, but at a greater distance, is constantly moving, zooming in an out and panning back and forth behind debris, chained link fencing, and objects within the studio basement. Here now, exclusively for our membership is Part 1 of the Jim Ladd Sony/Columbia interview of Roger Waters.

Film Crew:

Marker, Roll One, Take One, Marker.
(A member of the film crew snaps down the digital camera-scene data card in front of the camera.)

Jim:

Um, let's start with the basic premise of the new album which is entitled "Amused To Death." Give us the basic over all... the basic overview of the album.

(Roger is sitting in the basement cellar. The camera shoots from a close-up of Roger's face, to another camera which pans at Roger through chain-linked fence and wiring.)

Rog:

Uh, alot of the songs on this record developed from watching television and just checking out what's been going on around the world in the last few years. Um, and uh, I have this sense of um alot of human and political disasters being exacerbated if not caused by uh, a need that we have in the Western Civilized countries to amuse our populations um, in the exercise of dramatic foreign policy, i.e. one of the things that we find most amusing is to have wars, hopefully in distant lands and uh, it's a concern to me, uh, to see war as entertainment on television.

Jim:

Now, obviously, alot of this album is about, I would imagine..., was directly about Desert Storm, which was the first, although Vietnam was televised in a delayed manner, this was the first live, in your living room, as it's happening, via satellite war. Um, how much do you think the press has become, and this is really a question for probably a little bit later on in one of the songs, but the press seems to become almost a willing partner or an unwilling partner, part of the government propaganda machine?

Rog:

Well, what's interesting is the way that it's helped, that Desert Storm helped to sell CNN.

Jim:

Uh-huh,

Rog:

And the notion that, the notion that CNN is an important and um, and good adjunct to our lives, which I think is wrong, I don't think it is important and I don't think it's a positive thing.

Camera continues panning from close-up of Roger, to the other camera panning through chain link fencing and then zooms out to show Roger and the back of Jim Ladd's head.

Jim:

Why? Why not?

Rog:

Um, because um, specifically for something like Desert Storm, though I have to say only one verse of one of the songs was written after Desert Storm, all the rest of the stuff was way before that crisis ever developed in the Gulf. So in some ways some of it was kind of prophetic. Um, the way that they've been patting themselves on the back, and re-showing again and again and again those clips of the fireworks display over Baghdad and, and-and all of that, um, kind of illustrates my point really because it obscures the real issues of what was going on because it was uh, exciting and amusing and uh allowed people in their living rooms uh, to share vicariously in the, in the thrill of non-combat....

Jim:

Right....

Rog:

...You know there was, nobody was being blown apart and yet here, here was America at war, and there was lots of stuff going off and lots of reporters going "Oh wow, there's one coming in!" and dashing for cover of whatever they were doing. And; "There goes another Patriot (missile)," and "Isn't this terrific? Aren't we all having a whale of a time?" And uh, we did have a whale of a time. And they showed interminably, um, computer imagery of laser targeting this and that and the other and we could all get involved in the sexiness of the hardware and um, and, and ever since those few days, uh, extraordinarily, in my view, their selling machine has gone into full operation and CNN has been selling itself upon the basis of those few days....

Jim:

Ya.

Rog:

...saying "hey look, this is better than game shows," you know, "Aren't we wonderful?" The, the..., and they make very little attempt to actually disseminate news or to actually give people around the world... you know, their whole thing is "Here we are, a global news service!" And they're not, it's an entertainment channel....

Jim:

Right.

Rog:

....it's pure entertainment and that's what it's for and that's what they're selling to their sponsors and that's the whole Ted Turner thing, it's that, in my view, maybe I'm wrong, I may be proved wrong.

Jim:

So the best thing that ever happened to CNN was Desert Storm...

Rog:

Right, that-that's my view ya and, and uh, and the way it's been marketed since, the videos that have come out, the this and the that and the other, and uh, you know, it's great, it's something that's really nice and simple and easily assimilable by, um, the marketing machine, it's great. Uh, sales of American arms have quadrupled, quintupled, it's been fantastic for business, it's uh, um, you guys made a profit. It was a good, it was a really really good thing, you know?

Jim:

Is it?

Rog:

Of course, it hasn't changed the politics of the Middle East one iota.

(Camera blurs and zooms out from Roger's face and Pans...)

Jim:

Let's talk about the first song on the album which is a refrain that continues to come back and I find extremely interesting and maybe I guess the first single, uh, God Wants part one.
At the very beginning, there are three sound effects, which I take it is a TV being..., going through the channels?

Rog:

Ya...

Jim;

Explain the significance of these three pieces, why these (sound) bytes are important?

(Camera still panning, sharpens to clarity.)

Rog:

Well visually, ah, the theater of the album is characterized as a monkey, a gorilla specifically, watching television...

Jim:

Right.

Rog:

....so I use the gorilla as a metaphor for, I suppose, for the human race.

Jim:

Ya.

Rog:

And um, he's just flipping channels looking for something that interests him.

Jim:

I see, and then he comes across this. Um, the song lists a variety of conflicting views of what God wants.

Rog:

God wants everything.

Jim:

Apparently so!

Rog:

Hmmmm.

Jim:

Apparently so, and has really no moral..., um, doesn't condemn morally, or right, or wrong really....

Rog:

Doesn't seem to, does he?

Jim:

No, is this a statement about how badly ‘His' word, with a capital H, uh, has been misinterpreted? Or are you saying that God is confused?

Rog:

Um.... No I'm just.... all that Jingoist... not Jingoistic, but uh, all that uh, religious bullshit when it's used to bolster our side in a war is extremely distasteful and offensive to me, and I'm sure to alot of other people. It certainly ought to be to all Christians because that wasn't what Christ was trying to teach. And yet here we are apparently, in England and in North America, in apparently mainly Christian countries and we're still going through all this nonsense about God being on our side and uh, I thought the whole point was that, you know, that um, that we were supposed to love our enemies, not that I'm a..., I'm not a practicing Christian myself but it always staggers me that um, people who claim to be can uh, can stand up and spout like your president George Bush, can stand up and spout all this bullshit....

Jim:

Ya.

Rog:

....which is why I have lyrics..., the lyrics in the song about God wants crusade and God wants Jihad. Where it may well be that God doesn't want either of those things. That they're manifestations of the insecurities of the Muslim and Christian communities on the different sides of the Atlantic Ocean.

Jim:

It, it is uh, it is unbelievable how you have captured, in a poetic way, the big question of how can two different cultures look at the same message and fuck it up so badly. I mean just turn it into what they want....

Rog:

(holds hand up to side of his mouth and whispers to the camera)
He said fuck! He said fuck!

Jim:

....to uh..., they'll bleep that out... um, but turn it to however they want, you know, and justify whatever they want to do by seeing the same piece of paper.

( A film crew member is again shown snapping the digital scene data card in front of the camera. A camera runs out of film and the picture goes to a still shot of Rog from his right, back side, and as the audio continues, a screen test grid is overlaid on the still shot, at it's top are the words; Safe Action Area, Safe Title Area. Another still is shown of Roger, [close-up front], again with overlaid test grid this time slightly transparent, then another still shot [front-side] of Rog is shown. This happens throughout Rogers next answer.)

Rog:

Um, hmm, what's more interesting to me is that we buy it, well, lots of us do, I mean, you know, you don't have to study the Spanish Inquisition or the history of Catholicism and other religions through the last two thousand years. It would be very hard to be able to point your finger at times in history when, obviously, something went slightly wrong, you know, you can..., you could in the name of God..., to break people on the wheel and torture whole kinds of communities to death seems a little strong. And yet, um, in the very recent past we happily go into South America, and, and with our interference, butcher entire uh, tribes of people who are perfectly happy living their..., living their lives where they're really close to God, you know, where God is in the trees and the spirits of the living things that are around them and uh, some kind of misguided people go in and try and impose their uh, Catholic, or Presbytarian or whatever, view of the universe upon..., upon these "lesser beings" in order to raise them up to a kind..., the kind of civilized heights that we've managed to attain.

Jim:

Several times...

Film Crew member:

Jim, we gotta..., we gotta change the film rolls!

Then at the beginning of a new roll of film we again see the film crew snap the digital scene and data card, and with a ‘roll um' and loud click the interview continues.

Rog:

Where were we?

The camera slowly zooms out from Rog, then in again, and then pans behind the chain link fence.

Jim:

We're talking about uh... What God Wants and uh... (Roger flicks his hair back), the way that ‘His word' or ‘Her word' has been misused to get what we want politically uh...

(Camera close-up of Roger [front left])

Rog:

What do you mean "her word"?

Jim:

Well there..., there is a certain uh, part of the population that believes that God may be a female.

Roger:

(shakes his head and loudly exhales)

Jim:

I...I don't agree with that...

Rog:

Anyway...

Jim:

Uh, the song Perfect Sense, the song begins with the HAL computer from (the movie) "2001 (A Space Odyssey)"...

Rog:

Shhhh, (Roger laughs) don't tell Stanley Kubrick!

Jim:

....it's having it's breakdown, and then it flashes back from that to the monkey discovering weaponry.

Rog:

Ya.

Jim:

Explain that. Explain that, how that happens in there?

Rog:

Well, that was the starting point for that song, was the image from the beginning of "2001".

Jim:

Right.

Rog:

Which I thought was really powerful. I remember everybody rushed out and bought "Also Sprach Zarathustra" (by Richard Strauss) immediately after the movie came out cause it's such a great piece of music and um, it's stayed with me in the intervening..., how old is that movie? Twenty years, twenty five years? It's a..., it's a long time ago anyway.
(Roger flicks his hair, the camera pans behind debris in the room obscuring Rog)
Um... so the HAL scene, ...actually when I came to..., I - I started putting..., putting monkey noises over the beginning of it, and it didn't sound right, and then, (the camera zooms in slowly again at Rog from behind the other side of the debris) I got the - the laser disc out of "2001". And remember "Daisey", you know, where the..., the..., where he breaks down and he starts to sing "Daisey, Daisey", and gets slower and slower, I was watching the beginning of that scene and I thought "this is great, we'll try this". Hope they don't sue me, they probably will, you know what they're like?

Jim:

Those Hollywood types?

Rog:

Ya.

Jim:

Let me quote, if I might, uh, uh, a line here that I really like from "Perfect Sense" it says:

The monkey looked up at the stars
and thought to himself
Memory is a stranger
History is for fools
And he cleaned his hands
in a pool of holy writing
And turned his back on the garden
and set out for the nearest town.

I..., I love that line, this..., this seems to be de-crying our willingness..., our..., our absolute passion to ignore history and the lessons of history.

Rog:

Ya, you could say that. I can't really talk specifically about this stuff. I feel like I'm pulling the wings off a butterfly if I start to dissect these songs. This uh my..., my attitude toward song writing is uh..., has become more and more passive over the years, and I..., I..., these..., these words..., it may sound pretentious but I..., I like to make some music and then stand in the studio with nothing in front of me, and run the tape and just go; "BLAH", and then I write it down, and maybe go back and drop in, and that tends to be how I write and that's how that was written. And um, it seems to make sense to me but I wouldn't care to analyze it really.

Jim:

I see, You don't..., so it's... it's more valid to you if the muse comes out?

Rog:

It's..., it's more..., it fills..., it..., well, no, it's not just that it's more valid. The..., the lyrics are better if I have no part in them. The more passive I am about it the better it is, the less craft and the more connection with whatever it is out there, the better.

Jim:

Well, is there a moment then, when you go back and discover what you've written?

Rog:

Sure, ya, that's the moment, As soon as I write it, that's the moment I discover it. And if it doesn't rhyme or if it doesn't scan or it feels..., then my craft comes into it and I change bits. And I..., and I..., you know..., and I write, and I will fiddle with it. But..., but the important bit is the bit where I'm not involved at all. Where I feel as if I'm a conduit. (The camera again pans behind room debris.) And if it's successful that's why. If it's successful, it's because, if people listen to the songs or see the lyrics and go "ya, I understand that, this strikes a bell somewhere." It's because um..., I dunno..., touching some group subconscience or something and that some of the stuff's coming out through that. I don't know, maybe it is, maybe it isn't.

Jim:

I've heard this expressed in similar terms from some of, and only from some of what are considered the best song writers in the world, they....
(camera pans close-up of Rog through the fence)

Rog:

(Smiling) Ya, well I thought of it first, they're all copying me. (laughs)

Jim:

It's funny they said they were having their lawyers look into your past, but you could fight that out with them. (camera zooms to close-up of Rog) It's..., it's interesting to me how that..., how that plays because some of this stuff... There's a song later on about Tiananmen Square, about the young girl that has a rather cogent history..., a..., a part of Chinese history in it. Did that also come out the same way?

(camera again pans through fence)

Rog:

Um, what you mean is all the stuff about um, about 1948 and..., No that, that's..., I knew that piece of history because ah, I was born during the second world war and uh, uh, there was a big thing going..., political thing going on at the time, where uh, left wing factions in England and America and other places were trying to make contact with the..., with the new regime in China after the nineteen forty-eight revolution, and uh..., I used to be taken, when I was very young, by my mother to British-China Friendship Association meetings and stuff. So... the only..., that's the only reason I knew anything about that history. And..., and the reason that I uh..., I put it, in the song was because uh, the..., the irony of the fact that um..., that that revolution in 1948 was supposed to be, um, against the tyranny of the um, Mandarins and of uh, and of the nationalist leaders in China who were murdering people all over the place. And to see the current regime murdering their own young people because they were trying to have their own revolution just seemed to me uh, not just extraordinarily sad, but also extraordinarily ironic, and also points to (Rog flicks back his hair) how dangerous and difficult it is when you give power to old men who had..., who have lost the ability..., whose brains have atrophied to the point where they've lost the ability to recognize that change is necessary, whether it was in 1948 or in 1990, or 89 or whatever, Tiananmen Square..., ‘89, now, it's three years ago.

Jim:

You brought up a, a point we're gonna get to later which is uh, the subject of...

Rog:

...And it is individuals, that's the most important thing about the song. That's why I characterize the story in terms of one woman, the death of one woman. And that's why I talk... that's why there's all that sexual stuff in there about how beautiful she is...

Jim:

Right.
Rog:
...you know, it's not really, kind of relevant, except that..., that that's my way of..., of uh, expressing how deeply I feel about that particular incident.

Jim:

I..., I thought it was brilliant that you did. And I..., I just must quote this;

"She's everybody's sister,
She's symbolic of our future..."

Rog:

Failure!

Jim:

"Failure" excuse me, I don't have my glasses on, uh...,

"She's the one in fifty million,
who can help us to be free.
Because she died on TV."

Rog:

Hmmm, ya well that's the central idea in that song. And the..., and the record is all about television and our relationship with it, and will it or won't it be, um, a factor for good or ill, it's a two edged sword.

Jim:

Right.

Rog:

And um, it can..., it can go either way. (pause) We can all die or we can all live.

Jim:

Right, right, and we could..., so, so one of the real questions is who, (cough) who controls what we see on television?

Rog:

Right. Ted Turner.

Jim:

Well he... In "Perfect Sense Pt.2", this is really uh, I mean, you know, it, it sounds farcical to talk about, but when you listen to the record it's almost exactly what happened. You display war being reported on, televised warfare treated as a sporting event, complete with a play by play announcer and color commentary. Is this a song that was also written before Desert Storm?

Rog:

Oh ya, long before.

Jim:

Incredible! (pause) Do you believe that the press has lost it's ability to report objectively on how our government wages a war?

Rog:

I'm not sure that the press ever had an ability to report objectively on how a government wages a war! I mean, that's..., it's unpatriotic. Press is inevitably nationalistic, that's what..., because it's..., if you're talking about newspapers..., if your talking about television, it's slightly different because it travels instantaneously uh, around the world. And that's..., that's another problem with, with something like CNN, is that it's only expressing...

The video film runs out, and we are left with a still shot of Roger, as the audio continues.

Rog:

The whirring (sound of the camera) stopped! ....it's only expressing one point of view. Although it's going out all around the world, your only getting one point of view. You know, Saddam Husein, may well be uh, a complete swine and a madman and everything else that..., in the way he's characterized over here, but we, we didn't really get his point of view through any of that. Although there were odd interviews and things. You know, they're different. Those people are different out there than we are here. And it might well be that the way that um, as far as a lot of them are concerned, you know, George Bush might be just the monster that..., that most of us think Saddam Hussein is. I'm not saying he is, I'm just saying that we have no way of telling. How do we, you know, how can we tell? Who committed the greater atrocities during that thing, you know, who knows? We don't know, do we know? I mean we..., some of us have seen some of the pictures in some of the magazines, it was pretty horrific, you know, and a lot of it was pretty unnecessary.

The video portion of the picture returns, as the camera again pans through the fencing.

Jim:

Uh, let's talk about some of the other talent that you brought in to use on this album. You got some really extraordinary people, tell us who you brought in that's playing on the album.

Rog:

Well, the band are my band I normally use who are all very talented. Graham Broad plays the drums. Andy Fair-Weather Low, whose central to the whole thing, his guitar playing has become increasingly important to me over the years. Um, they're the kind of two key musical factors in the band. And then Pat Leonard who produced the record, plays a lot of the keyboards, and his contribution is incalculable. And then um, there's a song called "Western Women" that has this very sexy part in it for a woman. And uh..., which I tried with a few different kind of background singers and people. And then it struck me that the sexiest voice in the history of Rock & Roll is Rita Coolidge. So I called her up and she came and did it, and she was great!
And um, who else? Don Henley has sung one of the songs with me as a duet.

Jim:

Which song did Don Henley sing?

Rog:

It's called "Watching TV," it's the Tiananmen Square song. Um, and Jeff Beck is all over the record, and that was a seriously religious experience!

Jim:

Now he..., I heard, uh, some of the tracks that he's playing on, and this is some extraordinary stuff. Even by Beck's standards, this is extraordinary stuff...

Rog:

Yeah.

Jim:

...Um, when you work with someone like a Don Henley or a Jeff Beck, how much, uh, do you try to lay out what your looking for, and how much latitude do you give them?

Rog:

Uh, well the two of them are very different, Jeff likes to be given as much instruction and help as possible. He likes, you know, to know exactly what it is that one's after. And within fairly narrow parameters of what we're after, he still does the most extraordinary things. And we, you know, Pat and I would sit, and Nick Griffiths, who was engineering the sessions, would sit there with our mouths open and just go (Rog inhales deeply). "Well, lets just do one more track. Which is a nightmare for post-production because then we have to go through it all and throw a whole load of it away cause there's only room for a certain amount on the record.
Um, Don, um, is kind of different, you know, because he was singing harmony parts to stuff that I'd already got on tape and stuff so..., uh, it really..., he's such a master of harmony as anybody who knows his work will know that, um, really, I just left him alone, you know, and he came up with some harmonies that I wouldn't of dreamt of in a million years.

Jim:

Great!

Rog:

And Rita uh, her..., her part was kind of a bit simpler, uh, we worked for a couple of days and it was great.

Jim:

Excellent. So we're talking about other..., other uh, folks that you worked with uh..., I think a lot of people would be interested in knowing who has effected you musically over the years?

Rog:

Hmmm, (long pause) Oh, you want me to tell you that, now, (laughs).

Jim:

Unless, you'd like to know who my influences have been, ya sure (giggles).

Rog:

Oh, I don't know, I couldn't list them all. The..., the name that springs into my mind is Lennon. I think he's the most important influence.

Jim:

Um..., censorship in the last few years has been something that's cropped up with the PMRC and uh..., Tipper Gore and all that...

Rog:

What's PMRC?

Jim:

Uh, Parental Music something or other...

Rog:

Right.

Jim:

It stands for labeling albums.

Rog:

Right.

Jim:

It's a group that wants to save our children from the demons of Rock & Roll.

Rog:

Ya.

Jim:

Does that effect you at all? Do you give any thought to people like that?

Rog:

I..., I don't know, when "The Pros and Cons of HitchHiking" came out they had to put a black sticker over this woman's bum that was on the..., that was on the cover. There was this really beautiful model, because it was, you know, the record was about sexual fantasies and so I put one on the cover. It seemed to me perfectly legitimate, and um, she was gorgeous as well. And they stuck these big black stickers over her bum, which I just thought was so pathetic, you know, and there's a strange..., there is that weird kind of puritanical streak in a... that runs through the mainstream of A..., of American culture which is, is so much at odds with um, the reality of modern life, you know. It's this weird thing about not being able to say "FUCK" on the radio, which I find absolutely extraordinary, you know. When you and I do interviews, there's a lot of "ooh, ooh, ooh, ooh, (holds hand by mouth and twiddles his fingers), you know, I don't understand it. It..., it..., I just don't understand it. We all know that it's part of..., that that word is in common usage. Alot of peoples language consists of almost nothing else, you know. So um..., the record company, inevitably, because of "What God Wants, God Gets, God Help Us All," they're gonna send copies to every bible society that they can find in order to stir them up, you know. And alot of them will get very upset and unhappy about it and uh... So, from that point of view, they will, in this instance at least, be um..., doing something positive, because they're gonna try and stop their children from getting hold of this hellacious and uh, heretical work. And inevitably, their children are gonna want to get hold of it, which is why Columbia, bless them, will send it to everybody, I hope, isn't it..., you know, so that...

Jim:

But those guys never get it. They always think that "Well, we'll ban it and we'll stop it", I mean they never understand what that means, you know.

Rog:

Well..., well they..., you know, they set themselves up to be..., they try to shoot everybody down and so they set themselves up, you know, a nice big pile of coconuts to throw wooden balls at. Because they're kind of um..., kind of a pitiful sight, you know.

Jim:

Um..., let's uh, let's go back to the lyrics for a moment since you brought up "What God Wants". Let's go on to uh, "What God Want's Part..., Part Two." Where did you get this extraordinary preacher, which we were just talking about, I mean this is "The Guy" that you got at the beginning? Where did you get that?

Rog:

Oh well, well they're all over the airwaves, they're everywhere because they've discovered that it's great business, and these guys are all making fortunes of..., maybe they're not all making fortunes, but alot of them are. And um, they're everywhere. I..., You just turn the television on and go through the channels and there is one. And like..., within the guise of religious programming these people that..., basically they're going "God wants you to send me your money so I can put it in my bank and invest it and go on holiday," you know. That's kind of it, and I find it really funny. I mean it's, again it's pathetic and pitiful. And the sad thing is, to be serious about it, is that out there in TV land, there are these gullible people who write out checks and send it. Send money to these criminals. And they are..., they're all criminals. If they were serious about uh, Christianity, they wouldn't be doing this stuff. They'd be helping people. They'd be out there doing, you know, the real thing. They'd read in the bible and go, "Oh, I see, that's what your supposed to do, your supposed to help the poor and the sick, and love your neighbor, and do all that stuff, that's what I'm going to do." They wouldn't be on television asking people to send them money.

(The film in the camera again runs out, and the video picture stops to show only a still of Roger, as the audio continues. - After the camera is re-loaded, a member of the film crew snaps down the digital camera-scene data card, for the new take.)

Rog:

(singing) "Wait till the sun shines Nellie."

Jim:

Is that song from World War One?

Rog:

Ya.

Jim:

Ya, explain that, he gets a phone call from an old man who sings this song.

Rog:

Ya, this is a guy, who I..., I saw talking about the Battle of the River Somme... They did a thing in England, a documentary about survivors of the Somme. And they're these guys, they're all like ninety years old now, and there's..., there's not many survivors now, of the battle. And the extraordinary thing is, well what they have lived with the memory of that time uh, without being able to deal with it uh, since then, since 1917. So it's like, whatever it is, seventy-two, seventy-three years or something. And they're still unable to deal with the guilt of having survived when so many of their friends were killed. And uh, it's, I dunno, it's pretty moving stuff.

Jim:

Ya.

Rog:

But it, you know, it..., it points at the fact that life is either very long or very short depending upon your perspective, and um..., my view is; Life's to long not to give yourself the chance to understand some of this stuff and deal with it, you know.

Jim:

That you should be able to come to some sort of conclusions along the way.

Rog:

Well, I don't know, it um...., I've always been..., all of this is in reference to these songs about what God wants and what God doesn't want. I've always charact..., you know, thought of myself as an agnostic, but only cuz I'm not prepared to um, throw my hat into any particular religious ring. Um..., never-the-less there is something spooky about the way I feel about all of this and uh, there's something about the organization of natural history, which I could only explain or feel myself, in a kind of religious mode of some sort. And um, in order to feel good about being alive, it seems to me, it seems that human beings find it necessary to make some sense of what's going on. And my concern is that..., that the whole idea of a free market, which is the current talisman of the western civilized societies, doesn't appear to be the whole answer. And my concern about t..., television, which could be this extraordinary force for good, if it's used as a communicating medium between people of different faiths, and different persuasions, and different... And to give us an over all global view of what we are, and why we're here, and what our history is, and what's going on. If it's..., if it's that, then it's wonderful. If it's used as a selling tool, Ala. CNN, then it's a complete disaster. If we sell this market, this free market bullshit to the rest of the world, we're dead, we're all dead. That's the end of it, we die, very soon, very fast.

Jim:

Why?

Rog:

Because um, free market economies only work in an expanding market. It was OK in the nineteenth century when there was the third world to exploit. But the world is..., is..., has shrunk to a remarkable extent, and to the extent that..., the world doesn't really want anymore cars. The whole idea, the thing that's obsessing the Americans now is this idea of the trade war between the Japanese and the Americans in the automobile industry. Please! Is this an important issue? It's meaningless! Who gives a fuck? About Toyota, or Hyundai, or GMC or whatever it may be. It's a, a side track. It's an issue that shouldn't concern any of us. It's meaningless nonsense. It doesn't matter if you have fins or you don't have fins, or whatever. It, it's a distraction. Motor cars distract us from what our path might be. And in order to find our path we have to ignore all that bullshit and to, to..., I mean apart from ignoring motor cars, to get involved, not just in motor cars, but in small questions of whether or not the Japanese or the Americans make them better or can compete with each other in other markets in South America or bloody Africa or Israel or something is, is nonsense. And yet we devote an enormous amount of time and energy to it. And when I drive around L. A., real American taxi drivers bang on at me about the Japanese, you know. And there's a whole..., there's a thing developing. I mean, taxi drivers tell me they want to nuke ‘em back to the stone age, I'm serious, and they're serious. Why, what, whatever for, what's going on? What's going on in these peoples minds that their lives are taken up with this crap?

Jim:

For people who own vast tracks of land and are willing to cut down forests...

Rog:

Ya...?

Jim:

...and pave it over, there seems to be a..., I'm not talking about legally, I'm talking about..., there seems that there should be a..., some sort of moral law about that.

Rog:

Ya, there does seem to be. And uh, strangely and wonderfully enough there are organizations, GreenPeace and, you know, all these kind of environmental organizations, which have in a very very short space of time, have gained a serious foothold in our consciousness. And it may well be that here we are in 1991 at the beginning of a revolution that's gonna take care of all that stuff. Let's hope so, let's pray to God that it happens, you know, so that there is some kind of planning for the future and so that future generations, um, you know, get, get a deal that is not quite as raw that most of them are getting now. We're OK. I'm OK! I'm fine! you know. I leave here now, I get in the Merc., drive back to the studio, sing for a bit, go out and eat sushi, you know. But all over the world there are people dying, and living in awful depravation and misery, which we kind of ignore, and occasionally we have a look at it. And it's a miracle, you know, we've got famine when we need it, we got designer crime, uh..., I dunno Jim, I don't know how much rope we have. I mean the law will tell you how much rope we have, but then the law, your law, which is based on our law, which is English law, is only about property. (video stops, camera runs out of film, audio continues.) That's all the law is interested in is the idea of property. And it's really based..., it's the law of the sword, you know, it's..., you know, it used to be the Indians, didn't it?

(A still shot of Roger is shown. Then we hear background noise as camera is re-loaded and we see a film crew member snap the digital marker, scene data card for the next take and the video continues.)

Rog:

Ah, the album's produced by Pat Leonard, um, "Bitch Master Leonard," as he's known in the trade because of his association with Madonna. Uh, what else did they wanna know?

Jim:

Do you prefer recording or playing live?

Rog:

Um, I love, I love to do both those things. And uh, I, hopefully we will tour this eventually. I, I really want to, I've got some really, I think, very strong ideas as to how to do it.

Jim:

Wanna share any of those?
Rog:
Uh no, because people (i.e.; Pink Floyd, ed.) have been ripping off my work for..., so consistently for so many years, that, I'd like to do it at least once before they copy it or take over. So if I tell you about it, you'll tell somebody else and it'll spread through out the industry and they'll all be doing it.

Jim:

So it's my fault.

Rog:

Well, no it's not, it would be my fault if I shared it with you.

(Camera pans behind a wall.)

Jim:

What will, what will your fans learn about you, after listening to this album that they may not have known...?

Rog: I dunno, I'll ask them both, as soon as, as soon as they've heard it. (Roger laughing) [Pause] I'm not getting to flippant for you am I?

Jim: It's not for me...

Rog: No fine...

Jim: It's for...

Rog: OK, fine. (Rog with hands in the air shaking his head) No, no I just...

Jim: That's their problem.

Rog: It's your reputation as an interviewer that's at stake.

Jim: My reputation couldn't be any more sullied then just sitting here.

Rog: They, they, my fans, the, the one's who occasionally recognize me in a restaurant, who come up, are kind of, I'm happy to say, are quite passionate about what I do, and they will love this record. they will lock themselves away and play it, and play it, and play it, and play it. (Camera pans behind room debris and a wall.) And it will not disappoint them. And that makes me feel very good, ‘He said banging the microphone.' That makes me feel very good, I'm, I'm glad about it.

Jim: What's your general view about music videos?

Rog: I'd rather not answer that question on the grounds that I might incriminate myself. Actually, generally, I think they're a very bad thing Jim. (laughs)

Jim: And why's that Roger?

Rog: Uh, I, I think um, I don't like the, I don't like the format. I don't like the idea of, of television channels devoted entirely to music videos. I think it reduces the whole thing to wall paper. Uh, individually I think a lot of them are quite interesting, and make, you know, and are perfectly acceptable form, that you should take a song and illustrate it with images. But when you get them all placed one after another they all turn into this weird kind of homogenous thing that I think dulls the senses rather then uh, rather than encouraging them to uh, flower.

Jim: So they become...

Rog: (looking at camera) Sorry guys, you know, (looking back at Jim) That's, that's how I feel. However, clearly it's something that's here to stay and um... I won't refuse to make a video, in fact I've got, I think a terrific idea for a video for the single.

Jim: That's, that's an interesting answer cause you are perhaps, you know, the most visual artist in stage presentation.

Rog: Ya, well I..., that's just theater, you know. when people go to the theater why, why blind fold them? And particularly in arenas and stadiums, you know, it's always been my view that you have to ah, provide people with something more than a little thing down there, you know, three hundred yards away kind of wiggling it's hips and singing. Which is why I got involved many years ago, got involved in putting on shows that could be seen from a long way away.

Jim: Uh, what albums are you listening to right now?

(Camera pans behind room debris)

Rog:

Um... "Rust Never Sleeps" (film crewman in background says Neil Young) Neil Young, Neil Young! Unfortunately not on Columbia but never-the-less, a one off! A man of true vision.

Jim:

What would you say about your music to someone who hasn't yet heard it to inspire them to want to listen to it or buy it, or go in and, and point of sale?

Rog:

(Laughs) Excellent question Jim!

Jim:

(under his breath as if Roger can't hear)
It's not one from the card, Bastard.

Rog:

(Laughs) Boy that was a great one!

(Camera again runs out of film)

Film Crewman:

How many cans have we shot?

Rog:

(Laughing) That was a really good one.

(Camera is re-loaded and we see a film crewman snap the digital marker scene data card.)

Rog:

Go!

Jim:

An extraordinary song on here is "The Bravery of Being Out of Range". This song is an indictment of the old impotent...

Rog:

Yea

Jim:

...men in positions of Power who send young men off to war. And I'd like, if you could, eh, I'll, I'll just give you the first line maybe you could uh...

Rog:

I remember the first line...

Jim:

Uh, I was gonna give you the first line, then I wanna quote it but you can go ahead...

Rog:

OK

"You have a natural tendency to squeeze off a shot"
(Roger hears a loud bang in the background, and turns his head to see what it is.)

It's a song for our, your great ex-president.

Jim:

Alright, that was my next question, was this based on Ronald Reagan?

Rog:

Yea. That was ah..., yea, yea it was. It's good isn't it? Don't you think it's a nice portrait of him?

Jim:

I think it's, it's a very clear portrait of him.

Rog:

Yea, that he, he..., that amazed me that whole Reagan thing.

Jim:

How so? Tell us.

Rog:

Well, um, that somebody that inconsequential could aspire to the highest office in the land is an extraordinarily interesting facet of the democratic process.

Jim:

There's a, a..., Would you start the line here, if you would, about uh, "Hey bartender, over here,
two more seats..."
Would you give us...

Rog:

Yea, yea. the last verse of the thing, in fact was the only thing that I wrote after "Desert Storm," as it's now characterized. I don't actually like that name very much. It's interesting though that, that um, we've given that dirty little war uh, a nice kind of movie title, so that we can sell the video to people... "Desert Storm" sounds great doesn't it! This real kind of ‘Rambo' stuff.
Um, yea, well it's set in a bar anywhere in America during that conflict. And because a lot of Americans became very team oriented, orientated, in that uh, time, and so it says;

"Hey bartender over here,
two more shots, and two more beers.
Sir, turn on the TV sound,
the war has started on the ground.
We just love those laser guided bombs,
they're really great for righting wrongs.
You hit the target and win the game,
from bars three thousand miles away.
Um, what's, what's the next line?

Jim:

"...three thousand miles away, we played the game ..."

Rog:

"...We played the game
with the bravery of being out of range.
We, we zap and maim
with the bravery of being out of range.
We strafe the train
with the bravery of being out of range.
We gain to reign,"

etc. etc., all with the bravery of being out of range. So it's a nice safe spectator sport.

Jim:

How much is the general public at fault, in accepting this view of Desert Storm, for example, as entertainment?

Rog:

Um- "General Public" is a funny animal to describe, you can't generalize, I don't think, about people. But I,-I would say my view is that um, most of us are pretty innocent you know, and most of us make good followers, an very few of us make good leaders, generally speaking, are not. And uh, the good leaders are often hidden away, you know, in cabins in Colorado writing poetry or on some university campus, you know, um running the department of philosophy and politics or something. Those are the good leaders but we don't listen to them, we don't read our poets, you know, we don't listen to the troubadours anymore, because we're interested in the larger view, we're interested in the people who are characterized as our leaders who are actually, by and large, very very sick people. My, my view of the world is that most successful politicians, um, by virtue of the road that they've had to walk in order to arrive at the end of that path, there has to be something seriously wrong with them. Can you imagine all those boring meetings that you have to go,- all that baby kissing. I mean there's this presidential election coming up now, you see them standing outside the factory gates doing there photo opportunities, shaking the hands- "Hi, how are you?", "Hi, how are you?", going through all that bull, nobody with the right credentials to become a good leader for us would do that, in my view.

Jim:

Uh huh.

Rog:

You know, it, it, - it's the one kind of um, central dilemma of the idea of democracy, either Republican, or Parliamentary democracy. And it's something that should be addressed a bit more than it is. I think we too easily buy the whole idea of, of the way politics works at the moment is, is the right way. I don't think it is. I think we need to um, to shift towards a consensus politics that has less to do with personality, and more to do with the practical solutions to the problems that face ordinary people.

Jim:

The song "Late Home Tonight (Part 1)". The song begins and ends, bookends, with two very poignant scenes of domestic life. The first is a farmers wife in Oxfordshire at tea time, the second, an ordinary wife, this time on the opposite side, Tripoli. And in between, there are men who seem, I, I take it that your saying, are the men-folk who, who have never really grown up.

(Camera still panning through fencing.)

Rog:

That is correct. This is the story of the American bombing raid from, uh, Bosking Down, in Oxfordshire in England. A number of F111's took off and went and bombed Tripoli in retaliation for something or other, I can't quite remember what, now.
(Camera zooms to close up of Rog.)
Um, that, that's the idea anyway, in fact, I think it was just an exercise of uh, of uh, entertainment, and trying out a few weapon systems, you know, and a little bit of training for the guys, um, and I found it deeply upsetting at the time, particularly because my country was involved in it, which I disapproved of enormously. (Camera pans at Rog, again behind and past obstructions) So um, (Rog holds hand over brow), I tried to, the song tries to describe the situation of a woman who lives near the air field, a woman who gets bombed and these, and the military who are in between, who um, whose, some of whose hearts may well be in the right place you know, and who may well believe that they're defending their "Land of the Free" and all the rest of it, but um who become very seduced by it. I, I would think if your a fighter pilot, it must be very difficult not to be completely seduced by all that sexual energy that you have at your control. (Camera zooms to close up on Rog) All that shiny stuff that spits out death, you know, there's something very very attractive about it and that's what's worrying about it... uh to me. And that's what the song is kind of talking about.

And were struck by the satisfying way her swimsuit sticks to her skin,
Like BB Gun days when knives pierce Autumn leaves,
But that's OK, see the children bleed,
It'll look great on the TV.

Jim:

What about, uh, the fact that television has also been able to shrink our world and allow us to see the..., the large eyed baby with the swollen belly in our living room, and thus make that connection, is that something that TV can be helpful in?

Rog:

Well, ya, absolutely, so long as it doesn't distance us from the feelings involved. That, that's the problem with television is that it, it can constrain bad feelings by sticking them in this little thing there, and then you can accept anything then. "Oh shit, ya, look, there's people starving, oh, hang on, what's on, what's on the other channel... Great! It's ‘Happy Days' ..." you know?

Jim:

Ya, you have a, a lyric in here about Vietnam Vet, who has gone back to a, to Vietnam to confront his demons and his enemy, and you're asking yourself in watching this little story why you're so moved by it, "after all it's only two humans being."

(Camera pans at Rog through a graffiti strewn pane of glass.)

Rog:

Beings Twistae...

Jim:

Two humans are twisted..., and also, basically what you're writing is about is humans being...

Rog:

Ya.

Jim:

Human and, and...

Rog:

This guy, taught..., one of these guys, the guy who moved me..., three twenty four year old women dying of every kind of cancer that you can imagine because of the dioxin in Agent Orange. And a whole generation of Vietnamese women who lived in the country side, just dying of this stuff and uh, if they're not dying then the kids they're having are deformed because they've been, you know, destroyed genetically by this poison that we dropped over their country for all those years. And uh, they visit this um, hospital, and he talks about it afterwards and he say's how hard it was. And you see him talking, they, they were pretty brave, I think, to go in there and talk to this women. And he said there's this woman and she's dying of cancer and you know what he says, "I wanted to do something for her, and you know what I did? I gave her a bottle of shampoo." And it's hard... you know?
And it's like, it's, it's a strange thing, it's like um, um, I, I use those things to write because I treasure them, and that's what I like about television, is if it brings some of those moments to me,

What does it mean
This tear jerking scene beamed into my home,
that it moves me so much, what's all the fuss
It's only two humans being.

I wanna have my face smashed up against two humans being. I'd like that to happen to me every fucking day. Several times if possible...

Jim:

Ya.

Rog:

...in order to, in order to clear away the vale of, of consumerism that shrouds our lives, you know?

Jim:

So, so you're looking for those moments of reality coming in between the...

Rog:

I'm looking for those moments when whatever it is in me that makes me feel good about being a human being because I can relate to other human beings. Or even dogs or trees or, you know whatever, I mean maybe this is all getting a bit Buddhist but..., That camera stopped moving!

(The screen goes white for a second.)

Jim:

God, of course!

Film Crew:

He's hyper aware!

(Shot of film crewman)

Rog:

Ha...

Jim:

Right when we got to the meaning of life, the camera shut off.

(Camera shows a side still of Roger sitting the chair. Film crew reloads camera.)

Rog:

That's all right.

Jim:

Isn't that it? Isn't that the joke.

(Camera is reloaded and we hear a loud click, as the camera again begins panning at Rog through the many props and obstacles on the set.)
When you ah, were talking about what's important to you, meaning, how you feel as a human being or how you relate to dogs or trees or, I, I noticed that uh...

Rog:

Or how dogs relate to trees! (Roger smiles and smirks)

(Camera switches to left font close up of Rog.)

Jim:

Yes, I've seen that um... when you uh put this album out, when it's done, when it's pressed, when the CD's are in the store, is there a moment of waiting for the reaction or are you able to say to yourself "I said what I wanted to say, damn how it's taken"?

Rog:

I think in the case of this record, both those things are true. I will have said what I wanted to say and damn how it's taken, on the other hand I will be equally watching to se whether people cop it, get anything from it, like it, you know, whether it spreads, whether people, I mean The Wall, for instance, which people are still copping, and they're still enjoying, and, and it's become a little bit of rock & roll history now, and I'm really proud of that, I'm really pleased. But what I'm more pleased about is the fact that I get letters from people who use it, like teachers for instance.

Jim:

It, I know that you're trying to be somewhat, which is unlike you, humble about The Wall, but, (Rog smiles) The Wall ranks, And let's just say it, with the leagues of Sgt. Pepper, I mean it's that...(Roger puts his hands over his eyes, coughing and laughing.)
It's to the eighties Roger, what Sgt. Pepper was to the Sixties.

Rog:
Um humm

Jim:

This album, Amused To Death, in scope, ah, in depth is almost a step beyond The Wall... (Roger begins to snore.) ...in that uh The Wall is about personal bricks...

Rog:

Ya,

Jim:

...personal ...walls that we put around each other and this is a more... (Roger pretends to nod off) ...global view of that. HELLO! (Roger pretends to awaken) I'll just..., we'll clap when I'm done with the long winded questions.

(Camera pans behind obstruction.)

Rog:

Yep! Yes-sir-ee.

Jim:

So you would uh... you would agree with that?
(Roger starts laughing) (Jim, shaking his head.)
Boy I love this part!

Rog:

I'm sorry, I've gone you know, I've gone over that dividing line between being a good dog and being a bad dog. (Rog and Jim laugh). I've gone into "bad dog mode" I can feel it creeping on... Sorry, here we go, Bad boy!
(Rog slaps his leg)
Basket!

Jim:

Cleaning up, Cleaning up that mess...

Rog:

(Being facetious) Um, ya...Ya, you could, Ya, I'd agree with that whole heartedly. (Rog starts cracking up with laughter)

Jim:

What kind of reaction do you wanna see other that uh... (Roger continues laughing). Boy, you're gonna really make me work for this aren't you? Uh, I mean is there some kink of uh, revelation of movement we could see that came from, came from this, I mean could people uh...

Rog:

What, The Wall, or this...?

Jim:

No, this record, "Amused To Death".

(Camera pans again behind set props.)

Rog:

I dunno, only time will tell. I just know how important some of that stuff was to me when, you know, I, I used to buy records, I still do buy the occasional record. We were talking earlier, you know, I just went and re-bought "Rust Never Sleeps" for The Trasher cause it's a great song. And uh, so I'm a punter like everybody else, you know, that stuff means a lot. Songs are a really valuable way of uh, expressing feelings. Just as valuable as novels, or plays, or paintings, or anything else. and uh, since the introduction of the kind of individual instruments to popular music, i.e.; you don't need an orchestra or a band anymore, you know, if you have an electric guitar it's enough. It's like made the whole troubadour thing more important because it got louder suddenly. It's a louder noise and the songs are louder, and they, and they mean more to people. And then radio came in and because of all this stuff it's very, it's very important to our culture. And I was really moved by Dillon and Lennon, and Neil Young and a whole bunch, and Joni Mitchell, and a whole bunch, and Leonard Cohen, and a whole bunch of other writers um... and I still am. So, so it's... So I'm very happy just to have that individual thing between me writing my songs and playing them, and singing them, and you, (Roger points to the camera) whoever you may be, out there, you know, getting something from it and reacting to it.

Jim:

How important is it to you, I know you've explained how important it is...

Rog:

It's my living Jim, it's my living.

Jim:

Well it's not, you know, obviously this isn't on the same level as those of us who write books, (Roger laughing) but um... And I know how important it is for an individual to sit down and get something from your writing. I know that's everything to you. But is it important, your place in "History".

Rog:

No.

Jim:

I see, I mean obviously you've already earned that place in history and you're a relatively young man.

Rog:

I'm extremely young.

Jim:

Relatively young, uh, (Roger laughing)
...and you've already done that several times with "Dark Side of the Moon," with "The Wall," and I think now with "Amused To Death," is going to be... and I'm only picking the milestones, we're not talking about album sales and all that stuff, so, so I mean, it must be an extraordinary feeling to have already accomplished that, yet still be young enough and have the creative juices flowing enough, that you know you've years to go.

Film Crew:

Marker!

(Camera pans again behind debris and fencing.)

Jim:

We're now gonna talk about the last cut of the album and the title cut of "Amused To Death," and here you bring the story full circle in uh, in a magnificent way at the very end of the song. And I might ask you to quote from the beginning, "And when they found our shadows..." quote that verse.

Rog:

OK, I mean, by way of preamble, the idea is that, that somebody in a distant galaxy has seen a flickering light in the sky which is the end of the world because after all, our sun is just a minor star, and it is dimming, in relative terms, quite quickly.

And when they found our shadows
Grouped round the TV sets
They ran down every lead
They repeated every test
They checked out all the data on their lists
And the alien anthropologists
Admitted they were still perplexed
But on eliminating every other reason
For our sad demise, (demise)
They logged the only explanation left
This species has amused itself to death.

Jim:

So we, we come back to the beginning really, where it's, it's the monkey and the weapon and it...

Rog:

Ya,

Jim: ...it starts again.

(Camera pans at Roger behind Jim's back.)

Rog:

I mean, this species is doomed to eventual extinction, you know, we, we, we've all looked at history, enough to understand that nothing lasts forever. Unless...God exists, you know, unless um, we're immortal, unless we have immortal spirits and souls and all that stuff. God I hope we do, you know, wouldn't that be great. Um... I mean maybe we do but certainly in terms of our corporal existence we're doomed to die, not only as individuals, but the planet will die eventually, the question is, what's gonna happen between now and then? And the, a, human feelings that are involved. And that's all this is about, that's all any of this stuff is about is, is whether people, all the people, everybody, not just the people I know and you know but everybody, whether or not they get a fair crack at the whip and a fair chance to be happy, while they're here. And at the moment, they don't. And there's no reason why they shouldn't. It's still, the planet is still relatively rich in resources but they're misdirected. (Camera zooms in then pans at Rog behind fencing.) You know, I mean can you imagine how many, how much, how many plastic bowls and uh, and blankets and uh, bowls of rice there are in one armed sortie against Baghdad? I know this is all old stuff and people go over the same ground again and again and again, um, but it's a lot, those things are expensive, you know, they're really really expensive, they take, they, they're a huge drain on the resources that we have, all of that stuff. And all those, you know, pictures that you see of all those small brown children with big eyes and swollen bellies, um, we kind of comfort ourselves with the idea that there is some, something natural about famine, you know, and that it's God's will, and in a way it's OK for these people to be kind of suffering like this. And we, and we characterize it as a problem that's happening somewhere "over there", you know, "these are primitive people who don't know how to take care of themselves." They're not, you know, we're all at, more or less, the same stage on our evolutionary development and we have a responsibility to one another, I think, to try and help to make each others lives a bit happier than they are, and that's all, all this is about. But we don't, you know, we, we... because we're so insecure, for whatever the reasons might be, because of the way we've been treated by our parents, or in general I think, is probably the thing. Luckily now we're beginning to address some of these problems as well. And, and you know, and people are reading Yung, and starting to take notice of what people so to there children and how that affects the way that they live and think and feel about the world around them. And so, it may well be, as I said earlier in this interview, that, here in 1992, we're like at the beginning of a new awakening, and uh, wouldn't that be great, you know, it would be wonderful if, if I lie on my death bed in 40 years time and look back at 19 or 30 or whatever, I don't know how long I've got left, and look at all this and go, "Jesus, those few little glimmers of light that we saw at the beginning of the nineties after that dark shit that was the 1980's were real...And it happened, you know, and people did change. And we stopped using up human life in the way that we have in the past," for what? For what? You know, in this kind of futile scrabble after Hanna Barbara, and Ted Turner, and all that bollocks, and the reducing of, of values, you know, and, to the lowest possible, saleable item, you know. Why sell people good stuff when you can sell them shit? I dunno, I'm rambling now, but this is what it's about, this is what my piece is about, is these questions.

Jim:

The clock in here is telling me that we're running out of time. Is there anything what you would like to say you haven't been asked?

Rog:

Um..., (laughs) I'm not g..., no, no there isn't, no. I think you've covered absolutely everything. (in mock admiration) I thought you were great!

Jim:

(laughs) Well, that's about it, we're out right..., (to film crew) you can keep rolling? (to Roger) You know how to get back to the studio?

Rog:

Ya, you're driving me, aren't you?

Jim:

Ya, that was one of the questions, it was burning...

End Credits displayed. "Director Michael Borofsky"

Rog:

(chuckles) No...

End Credits displayed. "Amused To Death"

Jim:

Are we out now? Um why don't you stop, stop the cameras, cause we could use a short...

End Credits displayed. "Released by Columbia Records"

Mark (film crew):

We're out now.

Jim:

You're out? Are... short end Mark?

Mark:

(film crew): No, one foot...

Jim:

One foot? Very short. - But are we going to stop?

Well, that's it kids. We hope you enjoyed reading this interview exclusive. Very few people in the world have ever seen or heard this interview, let alone knew of it's existence. Now exclusively, for our membership, you have had the opportunity to have at least read a transcription, read the words of Roger Waters. And a hearty thanks goes again to Roman Guzman, who's time and hard work put the words to paper so I could type them up for you here.


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